To: dlambert@capecod.net (Dave Lambert)

CC: MagnerJ@aol.com (Jim Magner), bgoodbar-colo@worldnet.att.net (Barbara L. Goodbar), hudsonm@missouri.edu (Joanne M. Hudson), cnyp35a@prodigy.com (Donna Sautbine)

Dear Dave,

You're certainly most welcome to the information. I'm glad you found the article interesting. I think it probably is "your" Matthew F. Magner, although there really isn't enough identifying information to be sure. This is my reasoning:

1.) C.C. Chambers was wandering through the south, trying to "get back to the army" during the spring of 1865. He reports leaving Augusta with three companions, including "M. F. Magner, once a member of Company B, but then in the cavalry".

2.)Matthew F. Magner is reported to have begun his service for the confederacy in an 1861 enlistment into Co. B. 11th Miss. Inf. He joined a cavalry unit later that year and apparently stayed in cavalry units

(Including Mosby's) until the end of the war.

3.) Matthew F. Magner left Winchester (Va. I presume) May 7th 1865 upon his parole. There are no reports of his precise whereabouts after that in the 43rd Battalion, Virginia Cavalry, Mosby's Command Regimental History. The next dated event is the report of his death in Delta, Ms. in 1866. (Which is found, in whole or in part, in all three regimental histories). So he at least appears to have been still alive when the encounter would have occurred.

4.) There are only three "Matthew Magner’s" listings in The Roster of Confederate Soldiers 1861-1865, edited by Janet B. Hewett. Two of the "Matthew Magner" listings turn out to be the same man, even though they have different (apparently incorrectly transcribed) middle initials:

"Matthew J. Magner of Va. 1st Cav, 1st Co D " in The Roster's master index appears to match the service profile of your Matthew F. Magner when cross checked in the transcribed regimental history.

"Matthew P. Magner of Va 6th Cav Co. D" in the Roster's master index is also a Matthew F. Magner in that transcribed regimental history, and fits your Matthew's service profile.

"Mat L. Magner of MS 11th Inf Co. B" in the Roster's master index is the third listing. Since they didn't have the regimental history of the Mississippi units in the library in Virginia where I found these materials, I was not able to look up his Mississippi unit's summary of his participation.

It is possible that this is another Magner, the one that C.C. Chambers was referring to, perhaps. However, I think it's more likely this will be the third appearance in confederate regimental histories of the same man. When the Mississippi Regimental Unit is checked, if there's only one M. F. or M. or Matthew Magner, I think we can increase the odds that Chambers was trekking across the south with Matthew F. Magner.

There was no "M. F. Magner" listed in The Roster, and other records state he served with the Ms. Inf., so if he isn't the "Mat L Magner" listing, where is he? The Roster should show him there, too. C. C. Chambers recalled a M. F. Magner having once belonged to that unit. He didn't recall any other "Magner" soldiers in Co. B 11th Miss. Inf. certainly no Mat L. Magner.

There are no other "M. Magner" listings of any kind in that Roster (which purports to be a master index of Confederate soldiers.) Granted, someone could have served and been left out of the index, obviously. In the chaos of the times, it's entirely possible, I think. Besides, I always run into indexes that don't have someone in them that I know was in the place the index is supposed to be summarizing. I have a somewhat jaundiced view of indexes, as a result. <g> However, it fits together very persuasively, I think, to consider all these references as being to the same man.

Well, that's why I sent this material to you and was offering it to Roger Norland. These citations, plus material which may be in civil war and reconstruction era memoirs may eventually provide a few more pieces to the puzzle. I haven't read Nancy Chappelear Baird's Journals of Amanda Virginia Edmonds, but there might be something in there that would shed some light on Matthew. It is cited as a reference in the Matthew F. Magner entry in the

6th Virginia Cavalry Regimental History, if you haven't yet run across it.

I was under the (obviously mistaken!) impression that Roger Norland had given the article to Jim Magner and was still in touch with you all. Thinking he might want to expand his original article in light of additional material, I was passing these citations along to him to look over. I won't bother him with the material, under the circumstances. I assume he has moved on to other projects by now.

I'll be happy to snail mail you the transcription of Mathew F. Magner's confederate service history.

If I run across his name again in my reading, I hope you won't mind if I pass on the citation if it appears to add any new information. Someday, someone may decide to expand Norland's article with additional information about Mathew. Every little scrap may help.

The summary on 2nd Lieutenant Matthew Ferrell Magner from the James River Publications Civil War Home page which you included in your e-mail looks like it was extracted from the same source as the Battalion history I found in the Virginia Regimental History Series. At least, everyone's copying the same information! <g> Hopefully, none of us are adding any mistakes to the record!

I'll send you this e-mail this evening, and put the 2-page summary of my notes on Matthew F. Magner in the mail to you tomorrow. Postal service willing, you ought to receive it some time next week! Snails Ho!

Sincerely, Ellen Magner Tatara

Date: 11/12/98 2:19:16 PM Eastern Standard Time

From: dlambert@capecod.net (Dave Lambert)

To: EllenLMT@email.msn.com (Ellen Tatara)

CC: MagnerJ@aol.com (Jim Magner), bgoodbar-colo@worldnet.att.net (Barbara L. Goodbar), hudsonm@missouri.edu (Joanne M. Hudson), cnyp35a@prodigy.com (Donna Sautbine)

Ellen,

Thank you for the interesting article. It is possible that the Mathew F. Magner referred to in the article is the same Magner as my distant relation, although it appears that he was in Company D - rather that Company B - for the time period referred to in the article. See the following information below, which came from the Mosby's Ranger's Company D information at the James River Publications Civil War Home page (www.erols.com/jreb/civilwar.htm).

As far as getting in touch with Roger Norland, the author of the

article "The Blue and the Gray", I suppose it could be done by contacting the publishers of the magazine Military Images in which the article appeared (Vol. XIV No 1 July-August 1992). Their address is RR 1 Box 99A, Lesoine Drive, Henryville PA 18332. If you would like a hard copy of this article, I would be happy to mail it to you.

Thanks again for the information (also for the previous information you sent me on Mathew Magner's military records). Re his military record, if you don't mind, would you please (snail) mail me a copy of those records, since I never was able to read the attached file you had sent.

Thanks. Dave Lambert

2nd Lieutenant Matthew Ferrell Magner

Matthew Ferrell Magner enlisted in 1861 and served in Company B, 11th Mississippi Infantry; was wounded at the Battle of Bull Run on July 21, 1861, while serving with Co. D, 1st Virginia Cavalry.

After joining Mosby's Rangers, he participated in numerous skirmishes, fights, and scouts from April 1863 until the end of hostilities.

Lieutenant Magner was captured on July 18, 1864, and was threatened with being "hung" in the streets of

Paris for being a Mosby Ranger. He escaped Union imprisonment at Harpers Ferry on August 6, 1864, dislocating his shoulder in the process while forced to swim the Shenandoah River for his freedom. He also sustained frost bite on his feet during the January 18, 1865 raid on the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad two miles south of Duffields Station, Jefferson County, (West) Virginia. Mr. Magner was paroled on May 7, 1865 at Winchester, VA, at the age of 25; (his parole papers describe him at 5'9" with fair complexion, blue eyes and black hair. He was wounded during the Gettysburg campaign, but survived the war and returned to Mississippi, only to die a short time later in 1866 of wounds and yellow fever while employed with a shipping company at Delta, Mississippi. (God rest his soul)

The Magner family left Ireland in 1849 and arrived in Nicollet County, Minnesota by 1852. (Matthew was born at Castletownroach, County Cork, Ireland.)

(The Lambert/Magner farms are still being operated by Lambert’s to this day.)

There is an article on the two Magner brothers, James and Matthew - both of whom fought in the Civil

War - in the July-August 1992 of Military Image. The article is entitled, "The Gray and the Blue – A collection of Vignettes from the Brother's War". Matthew's brother, James Magner was Captain of Company I, 28th Massachusetts Infantry - The Irish Brigade. (A very special thank you to Dave Lambert, who can claim that Lieutenant Matthew Magner, was a brother of his great grandmother Mary Magner.) Thanks, Dave for supplying me with much of the above information).

Date: 11/11/98 2:05:57 PM Eastern Standard Time

From: EllenLMT@email.msn.com (Ellen Tatara)

To: dlambert@capecod.net (Dave Lambert)

CC: MagnerJ@aol.com (Jim Magner), bgoodbar-colo@worldnet.att.net (Barbara L. Goodbar), hudsonm@missouri.edu (Joanne M. Hudson), cnyp35a@prodigy.com (Donna Sautbine)

Dear Lambert’s,

I ran across another entry that might be the Mathew F. Magner of your Blue and Gray article, although I can't be absolutely certain. I thought I'd pass it on to you to decide, in case you still want to add some material about the Magner brother who fought for the confederacy in your article. The article gives a vivid insight into the daily existence of Matthew Magner in a sense, since he was in the same area about the same time as the author of the article, and he probably had similar experiences.

Since I don't seem to have a functioning e-mail address for Roger Norlund, who I guess authored, the article, I wonder if you or Jim Magner might be able to forward this citation to him to ponder?

The material can be found at the DAR library in Washington DC (as well as other repositories, I'm sure; I made a photocopy of the pages, if needed.)

"The Confederate Magazine" 1923 article: 'The Coahoma Invicibles' by C.C. Chambers, Phoenix, Arizona page 461-463

NOTE:

Chambers relates his adventures from 1862 through 1865 + as a confederate soldier struggling in war and wandering back and forth across the south during certain periods. He and his brother, H. W. Chambers, apparently were members of "Co. B". Part way through his narrative, he mentions an M. F. Magner once. I've transcribed some of this section (pg. 462-463), to give the reference some context.

"That winter of 1863-1864 we put in at Goldsboro, N.C. The brigade was on picket duty on the hills overlooking the Rapidan and watching Grant's army. About the 4th of May we broke camp and hit the old Plank Road, and on the 5th the memorable battle of The Wilderness began. A. P. Hill was alone and minus one division to meet the enemy in strong force. We hit the enemy about ten, in the thick woods. As a sharpshooter, I was close [sic] to the left of our main line, the 11th Mississippi on the extreme left. I could lie down and see line after line rush on to my old comrades. I could not see how

It was possible for them to hold the line, but as they were lying flat on the ground, few shots fell low enough to hit. While our shots cut down saplings the size of a man's leg...Soon the Yanks found the end of our main line and sent a full line after us. Sharpshooters were strung out skirmish fashion, one man to twenty feet, some places twenty steps...we gave them a warm reception, falling back slowly. They did not care to disturb us that night...I found the 11th Mississippi had been relieved and was resting in line on the opposite side of the Plank Road. We slept in arms ready to spring to duty at a signal any moment, which did come before it was light.

Canteens were ordered out for water, and in a few minutes sharpshooters were ordered out on the opposite side of the road from where we were the day before, and without water, the detail not having returned. Our supper and breakfast consisted of a small ration of raw bacon and hard tack, no water. It seems that there was a line giving way, and the sharpshooters were sent out on quick time. The 11th Mississippi to follow us...A ball hit me squarely, going through my tent, a six-foot square of heavy drilling, folded up with my shawl on the left shoulder, and lodging against the skin

It fairly lifted me off of my feet, and I fell close in front of the men of my own company. I got up and went through the line. A small boy with the company gave me water the second time, and the third time I fainted I got water on the ground (swamp water). Not over 250 yards away I found Hood's Texans forming to relieve us. Imagine my feelings at seeing those men in time to save us. We were outflanked, in a manner surrounded, eight or ten to one...My suffering was intense and I knew my shoulder was smashed badly...It was while being relieved of the extra useless pack that I saw our beloved Lee for the last time. He and Longstreet were quietly talking, surrounded by their staff. When Longstreet's line was properly formed, the men went forward in slow time, the woods so thick in places no line of men could keep in place or make time...One of Company B, I learned in later years, was killed in that day's fight, Dane McMullen. His father, nearly one hundred years old, wept when I told him of his son's being killed the day I was wounded. That morning ended my fighting days. At the field hospital, the doctor pulled up my shirt and out dropped the gall, well flattened. "You are lucky; a spent ball." ...I lit out, but suffering as I was, it was slow going. I moved on all that day and most of the night, making Charlottesville some time the next day. All wounded were being sent to Lynchburg, but no Lynchburg for me. I had good clothes and lots of friends, a distant relative in Congress, and to Richmond I was bound to go...I stuck to my job of dodging guards, so I made the trip by train. I think by the 9th I was at Howard's Grove Hospital, suffering intense pain. The ward I was put in had a doctor named Mudd, a Marylander, but the Pennsylvania nurse was all O.K., a dandy good girl. My arm was in a sling...entire shoulder black as tar sent for Dr. McGuire...a knife had to be used. He cut deep into the abscess and drained the wound of pus. The cut made by the surgeon healed, but the shattered bone left bare a running sore...The doctor finally determined to transfer me to the hospital nearest my home. I did not report to the hospital, which was at Grenada, Miss., but left the railroad at Winona, staging out to Greenwood, where I met a comrade going across the Mississippi River. In the spring of 1865 I began using my arm, the wound having begun to close up. I was not content to remain at home so I set out about the 1^st of March in a new suit of Confederate gray obtained through the lines at Memphis, Tenn. by a sister-in-law and had some $40 in greenbacks. A thousand or so in Confederate notes. I paid any price too cross-gaps in the railroad. Johnston and Sherman had left the country in a destitute condition. How I missed all the cavalry scouts I do not know, but up to the day I got to Salisbury, I saw nothing of either side except a few men, like myself, getting back to the army. Three of us traveled from Augusta – my companions being M. F. Magner, once a member of Company B, but then in cavalry, and a Texas boy, and an Englishman. At Salisbury, I found Col. J. M. Stone of the 2nd Mississippi; Lt.Col Nelson of the 42nd Mississippi, Capt. Prince, 11th Mississippi, Albert Myers, 11th Mississippi. Gen. Stoneman, Federal, with 5,000 cavalry, was closing in on Salisbury. Col. Stone very foolishly undertook defense. I told him I did not think I could fire a gun yet, but "Come along," he said, "we may be able to use you." he took his position behind the railroad embankment and sent me back with an order to fill out his line. I saw the Yanks dashing out of the timber...delivered the colonel's message and said "It is all up with Colonel Stone, and it's every man for himself." I got my pack and lit out to escape capture...pistol shots were flying thick and fast and many calls to "Halt!" Around a large white oak, which had fallen, the leaves still on, many men had found shelter...I crawled up under [a] fork, spread out my shawl...the color of the white oak bark, and lay watching and listening to the Yanks picking up every man around. After dark, I crawled out. By this time the garrison was on fire, and from the light and bursting shells, I could keep my course.

Just after dark the next day, the cavalry came near getting me in a railroad cut...The following day I struck a town some twenty odd miles from Charlotte, where the citizens proposed giving me a horse to scout for them, to look out for cavalry. No more service for me. The end had come, and I was headed for home. The very next morning at the section house just out of Charlotte, I got the first news of the surrender. I went direct to the home of Mr. Myers, and there I found my comrade, Albert. A bath, a nap, a short rest, something to eat, etc; and I was ready to travel, but very soon A .B. came to my room all excited over the surrender. Mr. Myers gladly gave me Confederate money for some greenbacks and wanted more I hit the trail alone for the next town, Newberry, S.C. I reached Augusta, Ga. and remained there long enough to get my first monthly pay for over one year, money being paid out to soldiers who had papers to show where they belonged, these men going to and from home. There I met John Kimbrough, Company K, from Carrollton, Miss. He and I left Augusta together, to ride the train as far as it went, and footing it on the near Wetumpka, Ala, where we stopped to get some dinner and directions. The man of the house was on his fine saddle horse watching the Yanks, who were out in squads robbing the country. A squad of us were ready to arm with shotguns and give them a parting salute and get some horses, if possible. I offered him $25 in greenbacks and all the Confederate notes he wanted for the horse. He took me up, and I was not long in leaving. The Yanks were in force at Montgomery. I felt uneasy and, of course, traveled all night. John left me the next day, and I rode on, stopping only long enough to eat if I could get it...The second night, as I neared a farmhouse, I could see a man mounted on a large, fine horse. He called out, "Are you a soldier?" "No I am a soldier no more. Who are you? I think I recognize your voice." "Is that Chambers?" "And that is Harris." Never did two boys feel more relief. We had not met since the siege in Howard's Grove Hospital, our bunks adjoining. He was from Jackson, Miss., and had got into the squad at Wetumpka Ala., after I left, and had passed me the first night. He soon left me to go to Jackson, and I was on my way to Carrollton. I met up with one of General Wheeler's men...we crossed the Tombigbee or Black Warrior into Mississippi. I was warned to look out for trouble, as many deserters were out in that section. I feared the loss of my horse, and I slept with him...In the most desolate place...I saw a fine looking young man riding a splendid black, whom I recognized as Joel Booth, who had taken me out to the Taylor home in Virginia. He gave me a warm welcome...I remained ...until the next day, Joel going with me until he said there would be no trouble. From there I rode into Carrollton the next day. John Kimbrough had already gotten home, reporting where he left me. So ended my four years in the prime of life, a cripple, but here I am well along in my eighty-eighth year...A long road, but I am used to long trips...

Roster of Company B as recalled by Chambers, includes M. F. Magner...

A FINAL NOTE FROM ELLEN: In the inside of this magazine, there is a reference to a Matthew Fontaine Maury which made me think of the reference in the company rosters to a Matthew Fontaine Magner that appears to be a mistaken reference to Matthew F. Magner. Maybe a transcriber was thinking of the apparently well-known Matthew Fontaine Maury (for whom there is a foundation -or was in 1923- in Richmond, Va. and an effort to fund a Maury Monument) and the Fontaine is a more easily understood mistake, therefore? Sincerely,

Ellen Magner Tatara (whose gr-gr-grandfather, and his brothers and cousins, served in the Union from Indiana and Ohio)

Date: 11/5/98 8:21:25 PM Eastern Standard Time

From: EllenLMT@email.msn.com (Ellen Tatara)

To: MagnerJ@aol.com

Feel free to post the stuff. That may be the easiest way for people to see it.

Trying to transcribe, organize and flesh out the research I've done on the Magner family for the past nearly 40 years. Although, the first 20 or 30 were VERY slow going. Improved indexing, availability of films of original documents, not to mention the improved skills of myself as a researcher (!), has helped recently.

A couple of years ago, I trekked down to the National Archives on a regular basis, over a period of a year and a half, and I conducted a survey of all the Magner civil war pension files that they had in the Master Index of Pension Files. I transcribed the Mercer County material from the two folders of photocopies I made from those two men's files.

Actually, that project started out smaller. I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out which Henry Magner belonged to which family in Ohio and Northern Indiana in the post civil war period. I was having a similar problem with some Isaiah Magners. And I couldn't for the life of me figure out who Rhoda Magner was. So I read the files of all the Indiana and Ohio guys, and to my astonishment, discovered that the affidavits often had extensive information about family relationships embedded in them. I also discovered that the actual file folder had a lot more stuff in it that what they send you if you order copies of the civil war pension record via the mail. So I just kept on having the pull records and I kept photocopying pages and compiling my own hand written analysis of the family-identifiers so I could use it to sort out lineage problems.

Although, I tend to create problems for myself in reaching reasonable goals. For example, I thought, gee it would really be nice to have in my "book" when it's done, appendixes that contain all the census entries for Magner in the US through 1920. Well, I've got a lot of the older ones, and the index listings to point me toward a lot of the 1860s-1880s west of Missouri that I never bothered with for my own research. And I just transcribed 1920 Illinois Soundex Magner entries (Bet you aren't surprised to hear that after all you've been reading!) Of course, now I'm half blind. <g> Have a nice break...-Ellen

Date: 10/31/98 2:57:51 PM Eastern Standard Time

From: EllenLMT@email.msn.com (Ellen Tatara)

To: MagnerJ@aol.com (Jim Magner)

CC: dlambert@capecod.net (Dave Lambert), bgoodbar-colo@worldnet.att.net (Barbara L. Goodbar), hudsonm@missouri.edu (Joanne M. Hudson), cnyp35a@prodigy.com (Donna Sautbine)

Dear Jim

I enjoyed reading The Gray and The Blue, the Civil War article you have on the website. I noticed that at the time this was written, apparently little was known about Matthew F. Magner, the brother who served in The Confederacy.

I have some material about him, and I'm forwarding it to you and to Dave Lambert, in case you're interested. I don't know how to reach Roger Norland, who provided the article, and I was wondering if you could forward the attached file to him for me?

As I reread the description of his Mosby's Rangers service, I could visualize all the places Matthew had been. Paris, Va. is still a very lovely area, rural with undulating landscape of rolling hills and fields and meandering groves of trees. Winchester has a major highway going through it, but on either side of the road, you can easily forget which century you're in. Harpers Ferry is still hanging onto the steep mountain landscape overlooking the river, and the Shenandoah is still one of the most beautiful river valleys in the country. Manassas remains a relatively small town with weathered red brick buildings and historical markers documenting its long history. It's less than a half an hour away from me, and I drive over there sometime. About an hour by winding back roads through Fairfax

County is Frying Pan Park where every year they have pony rides and a small, family and child-friendly festival celebrating horsemanship, among other things. I've driven down the road which eventually, once you get away from Fairfax County, is still called "Mosby's Highway". That stretch of road is near Paris, Va. and surrounded by large farms (most of which are owned by people with significant amounts of money) with horses grazing in the fields and sheep staring at you as you drive by.

Dumfries is about a half hour or so south of me, on the way to Fredericksburg, where I spent several days over a couple of years reading through books with a genealogy researcher friend of mind at the Central Rappahannock Regional Library.

You never know who may be interested in the Magner whose history you run across, so I photocopied the pages I've transcribed here. I've proof-read it, but I can snail mail the actual page photocopies if anyone needs them –Ellen

Date: 10/29/98 1:39:00 PM Eastern Standard Time

From: EllenLMT@email.msn.com (Ellen Tatara)

To: MagnerJ@aol.com, bgoodbar-colo@worldnet.att.net (Barbara L. Goodbar), hudsonm@missouri.edu (Joanne M. Hudson), cnyp35a@prodigy.com (Donna Sautbine), mpaubel@hto.net, jmccrigh@cvn.net

Jim -

I noticed that several people visiting our website are working on a Magner family living in Mercer County, Pennsylvania in the very early 1800s.

I have two pension records which I selectively photocopied while doing research into Magner Civil War military service and pension files at the National Archives in Washington, DC. I think they may help sort out some things, although they don't take the family back any farther than the progenitor I've seen them talk about (Michael Magner, Senr).

I abstracted one record this morning and am attaching it as a separate file. It is a summary of the civil war pension file of Michael Magner Jr. of Mercer Co., husband of Rebecca Craig and Mary Cobb, father of surviving children: Jerome, William, Clara, James, Bessie, Grant and Mabel.

I have another, a pension file for his brother, William Magner. I'll summarize that one and forward it to you to circulate to Mercer County, Pa Magner searchers, also, hopefully within the next 24 hours. (As my Magner cousin -researchers will tell you, if I don't do it immediately, it can take years for me to get something done <g>).

I'm uncertain how to e-mail Barbara Magner

(bmagner@esu3.esu3.k12.ne.us ) since it looks like her address is too long and the Daemon Mailer might kick it back to me if I mailed her a copy. I'm not sure how this material relates to her group, either. Maybe someday she'll know if it's relevant to her search. Could you forward a copy to her, for her information, anyway? And ditto to Tom Magner at Penn State, if he's interested in receiving mail on this family group. Since they seem unrelated to his lines, I wasn't sure whether he would want a "personal" copy or not.

Naturally, everyone should be advised that although I try to be thorough and accurate, as always, people should check the original record themselves, if at all possible, to make sure I haven't committed errors of judgment or transcription, overlooked something important, or otherwise confused us all with some dumb mistake. Best -Ellen

MAGNER INFORMATION 36 edited by MagnerJ@aol.com

MAGNER INFORMATION 30 EDITED BY MagnerJ@aol.com

Thank you for writing. I have recently received a letter from Ellen Tatara, and I think she has found my grandfather, Grover William Magner. The information concerning his sister and his birth date is what I have from his funeral book. It was very exciting to receive this information after all this time. I will work on the family tree and get sent off as soon as possible. I have not received any -Mail concerning the Magner name for quite some time. The last one I received had my Uncle Virgil Magner's death on it. Hope to receive some information soon. Thanks! higginsp1@ilcc.ccia.us

Date: 11/5/98 8:21:25 PM Eastern Standard Time

From: EllenLMT@email.msn.com (Ellen Tatara)

To: MagnerJ@aol.com

A couple of years ago, I trekked down to the National Archives on a regular basis, over a period of a year and a half, I conducted a survey of all the Magner civil war pension files that they had in the Master Index of Pension Files. I transcribed the Mercer County material from the two folders of photocopies I made from those two men's files.

Actually, that project started out smaller. I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out which Henry Magner belonged to which family in Ohio and Northern Indiana in the post civil war period. I was having a similar problem with some Isaiah Magners. And I couldn't for the life of me figure out who Rhoda Magner was. So I read the files of all the Indiana and Ohio guys, and to my astonishment, discovered that the affidavits often had extensive information about family relationships embedded in them. I also discovered that the actual file folder had a lot more stuff in it that what they send you if you order copies of the civil war pension record via the mail. So I just kept on having the pull records and I kept photocopying pages and compiling my own hand written analysis of the family-identifiers so I could use it to sort out lineage problems. And I just transcribed 1920 Illinois Soundex Magner entries (Bet you aren't surprised to hear that after all you've been reading!) Of course, now I'm half blind. <g>

Have a nice break... –Ellen

Date: 11/9/98 12:34:48 AM Eastern Standard Time

From: ddaly@nextek.net (Dick Daly)

Hi,

I don't think we've got a direct connection but here is what I have. Ellen Daly m. James Cotter who died at sea. She later remarried Patrick Magner but had no children but the two of them helped raise my dad and two brothers beginning sometime in 1907. According to internment records at St. Mary's Cemetery in New London, CT., Patrick Magner was born 1863 and died 5/19/1931. Ellen died in 1932. In the same cemetery is, Thomas Magner b. ca. 1850 d. 1/3/1892, his wife, Ellen b. 1849 d. 5/14/1887, and

Baby Magner - no dates.

Fannie Daly b. 1872 married Walter Henry Courtney b. 1873 and died 10/12/1944 New London, CT. Anything here? Best wishes, Dick Daly

MAGNER INFORMATION 31 edited by MagnerJ@aol.com

Michael Magner, (Jr.)

Co. I , 57^th Regiment, Penn Vols

Selected Pension File Papers

Abstracted by Ellen Magner Tatara (no known relationship)

October 29^th, 1998

Michael Magner, (Jr.)

Pension Application # 42.150

Invalid Certificate # 168.431

Enrolled 28^th February 1862 in West Greenville, Mercer Co., Pa. as a Pvt.

Discharged 18^th February 1864 at Convalescent Camp, Va

Near Acquia Creek (near Station, Potomac Creek)

Sworn affidavit of 26 February 1864 of Michael Magner, Jr. (claiming age as 17),

Michael Magner Senr., and William Magner, all residents of Mercer Co., PA;

In which Michael Magner Senr and William Magner attest to Michael Magner Jr’s

Signature and character. Michael Magner Senr made his mark. William Magner

Signed his name.

Sworn affidavit of August 1878: Michael Magner (soldier applying for pension) claims

His age as 31. Physical description: 5 ft. 11 in.; light complexion; hazel eyes, brown

Hair.

Pensioner stated in his application papers that he fell ill with chest/lung illness near Fredericksburg, VA, that he was a resident of Cool Spring, Mercer County, PA since his discharge; that his occupation was farming. He was literate, signing his name. His disability allowing the military pension was incipient tuberculosis and functional disease of the heart.

According to papers in this file, Michael Magner was married twice.

His first wife was Rebecca Craig. Michael Magner and Rebecca Craig were married on December 15^th, 1874 at Fairview, PA by Rev. Dennison Kenny. Rebecca Craig Magner died May 1, 1885 in Cool Spring Twp., Mercer Co., PA (per statement of Michael Magner Jr. in which he also summarizes his second marriage and names his children and their birth dates, which appear below).

His second wife was Mary E. Cobb. Michael Magner and Mary E. Cobb were married in Port Austin, Huron Co., Michigan by Rev. La Zelle (a Catholic Priest). In his affidavit of March 11, 1915, Michael Magner states that his second wife, Mary E. Cobb Magner, died on May 5, 1899. (He states that his wife had no other husbands and was never married to anyone but him. He writes "No" twice, which could be interpreted as saying that neither of his late wives had other husbands.)

In the March 11, 1915 affidavit, Michael Magner (Jr.) gives his own birthdate as Aug 23, 1845 and his place of birth as Mercer Co., PA.

In the March 11, 1915 affidavit, Michael Magner (Jr.) was asked to state the names and dates of birth of all his children, living or dead. He listed them, as follows:

Jerome Magner b. Sept 29, 1875 *

Montrose Magner b. April 1877 (dead)

William Magner b, May 10, 1879

Clara Magner b. May 13, 1881

James Magner b. Feb 12, 1883

Bessie Magner b. July 21, 1884

Grant Magner b. June 14, 1892

Mabel Magner b. Nov 15, 1894

• It should be noted that in an earlier affidavit made July 4, 1898 by the pensioner, Michael Magner (Jr.) he was asked to list his LIVING children and when he did so, the birth dates appear to be different. The transcription of that passage appears below:
• "Jerome, William and Clara, James
• Vincent, and Bessie Magner
• Sept 1874, May 1876, May 1878, Feb 1883
• July 21, 1884, Grant Magner June 14, 1892, Mabel Magner May 1894"

(Note: This is the way his handwritten reply appears on the page.)

Pensioner Michael Magner (Jr.) was dropped from the pension rolls by the Bureau of Pensions because of his death on July 19, 1916.

His last known address was a RR postal route in Mercer County, Pennsylvania, where his last pension check of $24 was paid on July 4^th, 1916.

Date: 11/5/98 7:37:43 PM Eastern Standard Time

From: EllenLMT@email.msn.com (Ellen Tatara)

Lloyd -

I had an opportunity to check some more indexes today that might help you decide if the information I previously sent you from the 1920 Illinois Soundex is relevant to your search for "John Wm and Mary Delila Lint Magner".

I found a John E. Magner family in Fulton County, Ill in the 1910 Illinois Soundex. There was a daughter named Elizabeth in the family unit, and the younger children matched up nicely with the children you saw listed in the 1920 family group census description.

Encouraged, I checked the 1900 Illinois Soundex, and I believe I found the same family, this time living in Kingston, Timber Twp., Peoria County, Ill.

I went back to the 1880 Ill Soundex, just out of curiosity, and I scrolled through looking for a child named John between the ages of 13-14-15. I only saw one. He was living in the family of a John Magner, bp. Ireland and his wife Rebecca bp Penna.

I have no idea, of course, whether these family groups found in the census records will turn out to be the ones you're connected to, but they look like they've got a reasonably good probability of panning out.

I also tried to look for Mary Delilah Lint. There is one possible lead that I can suggest to you after scrolling through the Lints/Lunds/Lunts/etcs of Illinois. I scanned the Soundex codes for this surname, looking at the ages of the people listed, searching for an 8-12 (preferably 9 or 10) year old girl named Mary Delilah. I did this with the 1880 Illinois Soundex, and came up with three possible families, each containing one candidate child.

Two families were named Lund (Annie Lund's family and Lewis Lund's family).

One family was surnamed Lint. This was the family of Johnathan Lint. None of these families was living in Peoria County or Peoria City. So, I looked up Jonathan Lint in the 1900 Illinois Soundex, hoping he'd moved to Peoria.

Unfortunately, he hadn't. This still may turn out to be the Lint family (or close kin of the ones) you're looking for. I'm holding out that possibility because during the 1910 Illinois census, the John Magner family I've tracked here was living in the same county that Jonathan Lint was living in (Fulton Co.).

I leave this unresolved headache in your hands! <g> I hope this helps you find some useful counties to search records in to see if this possibility has merit or not, and some new names to search probate records, etc, hoping some mention is made of your John or Mary Delilah.

If this information is too difficult to read as presented here, let me know and I'll try to write it up in my Microsoft word program and send it to you as an attachment.

By the way, the other person (Ron Watson RonJay@intcomm.net ) who had posted an interest in this, to whom I tried to send a copy of the first material, apparently cannot be found by my e-mail delivery system. His copy got kicked back to me as "User Unknown". I'll forward a copy of this to Jim Magner, for his overflowing files, in case Ron queries again or someone knows how to reach him).

Good luck sorting things out. I hope I have helped and not further confused!

-Ellen Magner Tatara

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Magner, John head of household white 45 bp: Illinois Illinois

" , Mary wife 40 bp. Illinois

" , Bert son 17 "

" , Elizabeth daughter 15 bp Illinois

" , Leslie son 10 "

" ,Leonard son 06 "

" , Robert son 04 "

Magner, John E. white B. Nov 1866 age 33 bp: Illinois

[no house #; no street name] Kingston, Timber Twp., Peoria Co., Ill

Magner, Mary D. wife b. Mar 1870 age 30 bp: Illinois

" , Bertie A. son b. March 1893 age 7 bp: Illinois

" , Elizabeth R. daughter b. Sept 1895 age 4 bp: Illinois

" , Jonathan F. son b. Mar 1900 2/12 bp: Ill

Magner, John white male age 42 bp: Ireland Kickapoo Twp., Peoria Co., Illinois

Magner, Rebecca C. wife 37 bp: Penna

" , Rose N. daughter 17 bp: Illinois

" , John son 14 " "

" , James son 12 " "

" , Sarah daughter 10 " "

" , Elizabeth daughter 5/12 " "

NOTE: The 14 year old John above was the closest match in age I saw in Illinois's Soundex for Mary Delilah's husband when he was a teenager in his parental home.

Lint, Johnathan white male age 56 bp: Pennsylvania

Banner Twp., Fulton Co., Illinois (no house # or street name in address)

Lint, Elizabeth wife age 42 bp. Ohio

" , Annie daughter age 15 bp: Illinois

" , Franklin son age 13 " "

" , Mary daughter age 10 " "

" , George son age 8 " "

" , Frederick son age 5 " "

" , Alfred son age 2 " Iowa

NOTE: I was speculating that the Mary age 10, a daughter in Johnathan Lint's household, might be your Mary Delilah Lint.

--

Date: 11/5/98 8:00:27 PM Eastern Standard Time

From: EllenLMT@email.msn.com (Ellen Tatara)

To: Steve Burns

I saw your query of 10/21/98 posted at our Magner genealogy website.

I've been doing some census research, and came across an entry in the 1880 Illinois Census' Index (usually called the 1880 Soundex for Illinois, as I'm sure you know) that may be the family you're interested in. Alvina's name appears to have been miswritten (probably by the census taker, although I didn't read the actual census entry to see if it's different than the Soundex entry).

The names of two of the daughters ("Alwine" and "Anna"), the one son listed ("John"), and their mother ("Josephine") and father ("Thos") fit the family group description of the folks you're seeking. Of course, that doesn't mean these are they! They looked interesting enough to me to send on to you for you to consider, though. From the way your query was phrased, I thought perhaps you hadn't seen this entry, so if you have...sorry! <g> Good luck with your research, anyway, and I hope that these folks turn out to be the people you're looking for! -Ellen

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Magner, Thos white male age 34 bp: Ireland Bloom Twp. Cash Co. Illinois

Magner, Josephine wife 28 bp: Illinois

" , Alwine daughter 8 bp: Illinois

" , Anna daughter 5 bp: Illinois

" , John son 3 bp: Illinois

" , Mary w r 1/2 bp: Illinois

Date: 11/3/98 10:51:08 PM Eastern Standard Time

From: EllenLMT@email.msn.com (Ellen Tatara)

To: lloyd.carson@usa.net (Lloyd Carson)

CC: MagnerJ@aol.com (Jim Magner), RonJaye@intcomm.net

Dear Lloyd,

After reading the queries at our Magner Genealogy website, I realized that you had also posted the query about John Wm. Magner and Mary Delilah Lint there, and that someone else (Ron Watson) apparently was also interested.

I went into the National Archives today, and while I was there, I scrolled through the Soundex of the 1920 Illinois Census...searching all the "Magner" entries. I saw no John W. Magner entries. Of the "John Magner" entries, with or without an initial of any kind, there was one that sounded like it might bear closer examination. It could possibly be your John and Delilah, but additional research is needed to see if it pans out. Since neither of you seems to have much information about this couple, other than a daughter named Elizabeth, I'll pass along the Soundex info and see what you think.

Race: white; Age: 53; Birthplace: Illinois

Residence: Peoria County, Illinois (no house number, street number or name, no city listed on soundex card)

Magner, Mary -wife- age 50 bp Illinois

" Leonard - son - age 16 bp Illinois

" Robert - son - age 13 bp Illinois

" Velda - daughter - age 9 bp Illinois

" Annabelle - daughter - age 3 1/2 bp Illinois

–Ellen

From: MagnerS@benning-emh2.army.mil

Thank you for responding so quickly. I downloaded (to paper) the past monthly queries and also see "SplitR" Deborah as a direct relative. I am in corporate seminars this week, and won't be able to check it out completely until the weekend. I recognize "John, Bridget, and Wellsville" in her posting, from my old research.

I would be pleased to provide you a copy of the family tree I've been developing over the last ten years of off and on research. Next week we'll get together on the best format to submit it to the site. Wish I could buy some time to respond more completely. Lunch is over, must return to the session room. Sincerely, Stephen A. Magner

From: MagnerS@benning-emh2.army.mil

To: MagnerJ@aol.com

Thank everyone for creating a great web site and information "clearing house" on Magner Families. I came across it only yesterday.

My branch of the Magner's settled in Allegany County, New York, in 1840. In my research, I have determined that the Magners John (b.1815), David (1823), Edmund (or Edward) (1825), Ellen (1820), and Margaret (1827), arrived in New York City on May 4, 1840. They had sailed on the "Catherine Jackson" from Liverpool, England. As is the case for many of us, the research gets tough in establishing the "Irish home" for our clan.

Your site included pages for Limerick Births and Cork Births, very interesting to me, but they were only for viewing. Could you please advise me of the web site addresses for this information so I can scan the documents for possible compatibility to the above names/dates?

I do appreciate any thoughts you have on the subject. The Castle sketch is beautiful, and I'm glad the artist left out the watering trough that sits half way to the castle on the right side of the road.

The best to you and yours, Stephen A. Magner Magners@benning-emh2.army.mil

Date: 10/31/98 2:57:51 PM Eastern Standard Time

From: EllenLMT@email.msn.com (Ellen Tatara)

To: MagnerJ@aol.com (Jim Magner)

CC: dlambert@capecod.net (Dave Lambert), bgoodbar-colo@worldnet.att.net (Barbara L. Goodbar), hudsonm@missouri.edu (Joanne M. Hudson), cnyp35a@prodigy.com (Donna Sautbine)

I enjoyed reading The Gray and The Blue, the Civil War article you have on the website. I noticed that at the time this was written, apparently little was known about Matthew F. Magner, the brother who served in the Confederacy.

I have some material about him, and I'm forwarding it to you and to Dave

Lambert, in case you're interested. I don't know how to reach Roger Norland, who provided the article, and I was wondering if you could forward the attached file to him for me?

As I reread the description of his Mosby's Rangers service, I could visualize all the places Matthew had been. Paris, Va. is still a very lovely area, rural with undulating landscape of rolling hills and fields and meandering groves of trees. Winchester has a major highway going through it, but on either side of the road, you can easily forget which century you're in. Harpers Ferry is still hanging onto the steep mountain landscape overlooking the river, and the Shenandoah is still one of the most beautiful river valleys in the country. Manassas remains a relatively small town with weathered red brick buildings and historical markers documenting its long history. It's less than a half an hour away from me, and I drive over there sometime. About an hour by winding back roads through Fairfax County is Frying Pan Park where every year they have pony rides and a small, family and child-friendly festival celebrating horsemanship, among other things. I've driven down the road which eventually, once you get away from Fairfax County, is still called "Mosby's Highway". That stretch of road is near Paris, Va. and surrounded by large farms (most of which are owned by people with significant amounts of money) with horses grazing in the fields and sheep staring at you as you drive by.

Dumfries is about a half hour or so south of me, on the way to Fredericksburg, where I spent several days over a couple of years reading through books with a genealogy researcher friend of mind at the Central Rappahannock Regional Library.

You never know who may be interested in the Magner whose history you run across, so I photocopied the pages I've transcribed here. I've proof-read it, but I can snail mail the actual page photocopies if anyone needs them. -Ellen

Date: 10/30/98 11:20:49 AM Eastern Standard Time

From: EllenLMT@email.msn.com (Ellen Tatara)

To: higginsp1@ilcc.cc.ia.us (Phyllis Higgins)

CC: MagnerJ@aol.com (Jim Magner), bgoodbar-colo@worldnet.att.net (Barbara L. Goodbar), hudsonm@missouri.edu (Joanne M. Hudson), cnyp35a@prodigy.com (Donna Sautbine)

I noticed your query regarding Grove William Magner, which you posted at our Magner Genealogy website back on May 15th.

Perhaps by now, you've received lots of information and know the answer to your question, but I'm going to take a chance that you haven't and reply to you.

I've been puzzling over this for the past couple of days, since I first saw it.

The names were very familiar, but I couldn't quite place them. I've never seen a Don Magner, so that threw me at first.

However, if you could be mistaken about "Don" Magner's name, I think I know who your Grover William Magner is. If I'm correct, our lines probably are related.

First of all, my line of Magners and their cousins lived in Adams County and Allen County Indiana from the 1840s until the present.

I believe your Grover William Magner might be the William G. Magner who appears in the 1900 census of Monroeville, Monroe Co., Indiana:

John H. Magner (head of household) b. Oct 1850; age 49; married for 26 yrs; bp: Ohio

bp of John's father: Penn; bp of

John's mother: Ohio

John H. Magner was working as a day laborer

Catharine Magner (wife) b. Jan 1855; age 45; married for 26 yrs; mother of 4 children, 3 living; her bp listed as Penn; bp of her father: Holland; bp of her mother: Pa

William G. Magner (son) b. Nov 1884; age 15; bp: Ind. attended school 4 months; day laborer

Naomi Magner (daughter) b. Feb 1887; age 13; bp: Ind. attended school 9 months

In the 1880 Census of Monroeville, Monroe Co., Indiana, John H. and Catharine Magner also appear:

John H. Magner age 29 b. Ohio

Catharine L. (wife) age 25 b. Penna

Rosetta (daughter) age 2 b. Ohio

If your Grover William Magner is the same person as the William G. Magner in this family unit, I think you're connected to me and my cousins also researching this line.

Perhaps my cousins can check their records and weigh in on this, but I think this particular John H. Magner is a son of William and Rhoda Magner, who were second cousins, both surnamed Magner, who married in Crawford Co., Ohio on 23 January 1850.

Their son, John H. appears in their 1860 and 1870 census profiles. I've displayed the 1860 census profile below, fyi:

William Magner b. 1825 Penna (age 35)

Rhoda (wife) (35)

John (9) bp Ohio

Francis (4) bp. Ohio

Ostresch (sp?) (4) bp. Ohio

Isaiah (4 months) bp Ohio

The family appears in the subsequent census, as well.

William Magner b. 1824 (age 46) bp Penna

Rhoda (wife)

John H.

Frances M.

Sylvester

Wiley

Eli

Elias G.

In the 1900 census, John H. and Catharine Magner were living next door to William and Rhoda Magner in Monroeville.

So, the question is do you have a birth record for your Grover William Magner? What records have you used so far to document his birth in Ft. Wayne? Did they include anything (witnesses, birth attendants, etc.) which connect your Grover to John and Catherine (as opposed to "Don and Katherine"?)

Sincerely, Ellen Magner Tatara

Ps...I'm not proof reading this more than once, so I may have uploaded some mistakes here! If so...sorry, folks!